Charity or Suspicion?
(*) In the interest of full disclosure, I’ll note that I work closely with Archpriest John Reeves, a member of the Metropolitan Council, as I am his assistant rector. However, he never breaches confidentiality.
Page 2 of 2 | Previous page
Geo Michalopulos:
March 24th, 2011 at 8:03 am
Fr, a lot to chew on. Very well written, but the lack of charity began with Stokoe, not with ocatruth or myself. All we’re doing is trying to present the other side of the story, in other words, trying to be charitable. For proof of my bona fides at least, please go to the expose I posted yesterday and read the words I used to describe the bishop I spoke to.
More anon, the coffee pot awaits!
Geo Michalopulos:
March 24th, 2011 at 8:08 am
As to your suggestion regarding “proof,” you are showing remakable lack of good faith in that you reject the significant evidence that does exist(obituary, voting records, etc) but you reject it out hand because it cannot rise to the level of videographic evidence.
Geo Michalopulos:
March 24th, 2011 at 8:12 am
Finally (forgive the interruptions but my Boston Terrier demands to be coddled), “charity” would demand that the bishops put an end to this speculation. I suggested to my correspondent yesterday a very easy way to do this: put out a simple statement/press release/open letter/etc. stating something to this effect:
1. We repent that things have come to this point,
2. +Jonah is our primate and we do not have and desire to remove him from the post to which he was freely elected, and
3. The information that hit the internet from a member of the MC is incorrect.
It’d be that simple.
Charity and the good order of the Church demands it.
Stan Shinn:
March 24th, 2011 at 4:00 pm
Fr. Basil, thanks for this very balanced article which gets to the heart of much of what is wrong in how these issues are currently being discussed.
I also agree that there is no public evidence that a “culture war” is at the heart of this issue.
Regarding the initial report that “the Holy Synod desires to depose…Metropolitan Jonah”, the first mention of this actually came from Metropolitan Jonah himself. On February 27, 2011, at St. Nicholas’s in Washington, His Beatitude Jonah responded to reports starting to come out from the Sante Fe synod meeting. His Beatitude Jonah said he was responding “due to inaccurate reporting on the Internet stating that I had been deposed, that I had resigned, that I am on a leave of absence” (see the transcript here: http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/45049.htm, and video here: http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2011/02/his-beatitude-metropolitan-jonah-addresses-the-faithful-of-the-archdiocese-of-washington). The reports that he was on a leave of absence were in fact true, despite his comments. Perhaps this gave rise to speculation on ocatruth.com and elsewhere that the other comments he refuted were also true — that a move to have him deposed (which +Jonah himself was first to mention on the Internet, though he refuted it) was underway.
In any case, much of the speculation underway is unfruitful. I believe there are real issues at play which need to be addressed in due time and with due process. I am saddened that — during Lent most especially — conspiracy theories with little evidence have spun into something altogether uncharitable which only serve to confuse the Faithful.
Chris Banescu:
March 24th, 2011 at 4:01 pm
Thank you Fr. Basil for properly framing the issues and providing a wise and truthful perspective on the situation. There is a great deal of speculation and false accusations being posted and inferred by individuals who are mostly unfamiliar with the previous OCA spiritual and financial scandals and lack the required experience, knowledge, and moderation needed. Sadly many of these self-proclaimed “conspiracy experts” admire and take at face value accusations and speculations from men of questionable character and integrity like Fr. Joseph Fester (and by association Robert Kondratick) and retired Bishop Tikhon of the West (Fitzgerald), while simultaneously smearing and defaming the entire Synod, the MC, and Fr. Thomas Hopko.
Fr. Yousuf Rassam:
March 24th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
Dear George,
In regards to your demand of a statement from the bishops, Bp. Benjamin made one and Bp. Mark the adminstrator of your diocese made one, and as far as I can tell, other than mocking Bp. Benjamin, you have taken no notice of them.
In fact Bishop Benjamin actually said, “I ask your prayers for both the Metropolitan and the Holy Synod and I ask your forgiveness for the
disturbance that has occurred in the peace of the Church.”. You found fit to only mock.
Fr Yousuf
George Michalopulos:
March 24th, 2011 at 11:02 pm
Fr Yousuf, bless.
I’m sorry, but the statement put out by Bishop Benjamin is inoccuous and has done nothing to calm the waters. Don’t get me wrong, it’s good as far as it goes and should be sufficient because it’s concerned with spiritual matters, but my earlier criticsm stands.
I would say that this statement would pack more “oomph” had it ended with these words: “…caused by me.”
I must however take umbrage with your assertion that I “mocked” Bishop Benjamin. When did I do so?
George Michalopulos:
March 24th, 2011 at 11:13 pm
Stan, a small quibble: the “first mention” of the deposition of +Jonah came not from +Jonah himself, but from http://www.romfea.gr and was then subsequently picked up by http://www.ocanews.org.
As to “public evidence of a culture war,” I agree with you, there is none. There are however the assertions by ocanews that many were upset with HB for “unilaterally signing” the Manhattan Declaration. Since then, the WaPo article has highlighted the “culture wars” within American Orthodoxy.
More to the point, the fact that this tumult has opened severe fissures within the OCA precisely across cultural lines indicates that there has been a long-simmering dispute that has now been brought out into the open.
At the risk of sounding simplistic, you could say that we feel it in the air at present.
George Michalopulos:
March 24th, 2011 at 11:22 pm
Chris,
you know that I very much respect your ideas. However, I must ask: what exactly is it that +Jonah did that was criminal, immoral, uncanonical, or unethical?
As for the leaked e-mail, the fact that it came from Bishop +Tikhon means what exactly? What about Faith Skordinski’s e-mail in which she openly mocked the entire Holy Synod, and the other one in which she implicated Fr Garklavs in doctoring the SMPAC report?
None of the above e-mails may hold up in a court of law, but they do paint a dismal picture of backstabbery, ineptness, and all-around bad faith, all in the service of getting HB removed.
Please understand, I know mistakes were made. We all make mistakes, but +Jonah’s mistakes do not rise to the level of hatred exhibited towards him.
Fr Basil Biberdorf:
March 24th, 2011 at 11:33 pm
I maintain a general policy that I don’t engage much in comments. However, George, a couple of points are in order.
1. If you’re going to accuse someone of active homosexuality, I’m unsure how a voting record or an obituary supports it. Ohio has banned gay marriage and does not acknowledge those performed elsewhere. At one time, it was quite common for males to share quarters. I think college dormitories and U.S. armed forces still operate that way.
2. Do you have a link that shows OCANews.org mentioning, in an editorial position, that Jonah was at risk of deposition? I can’t find one. The editorial comment in Comment 47 at http://tinyurl.com/6bw29fh makes clear that deposition was not under consideration. Romfea.gr (http://tinyurl.com/6ke8d34 or http://tinyurl.com/5u3xf52 ) is clearly sketchy in its details. Is the cabal behind Romfea.gr?
3. There is no proof at all that the Holy Synod is trying to do anything nefarious or uncanonical at all. (They can’t ask one of their own to request a leave of absence? They can’t meet privately to address serious concerns?) Of what do they need to repent, exactly?
Fr. Yousuf Rassam:
March 25th, 2011 at 1:10 am
Dear George,
O Kyrios!
It is hard for any statement to calm the waters when you and your fellows at OCATruth are constantly fanning the flames.
If you didn’t mean to mock Bp. Benjamin, just whose call to “stop the gossip” were you mocking in lines two and three of your second paragraph of “More Developments Nephew” post on your blog?
Fr Yousuf
Stan Shinn:
March 25th, 2011 at 5:35 pm
George wrote:
“Stan, a small quibble: the “first mention” of the deposition of +Jonah came not from +Jonah himself, but from http://www.romfea.gr and was then subsequently picked up by http://www.ocanews.org.”
George, romfea.gr reported that +Jonah was leaving his role as Metropolitan, but (in the translations I’ve seen) made no mention of +Jonah being deposed. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but so far as I can tell, +Jonah himself was still the first to introduce that topic into conversation.
Amanda:
March 30th, 2011 at 9:21 pm
The suspicious minds are the ones framing this as a “culture war” between liberal/pro-gay/pro-abortion Orthodox from the Northeast and Midwest and conservative/anti-gay/pro-life Orthodox from the South and West.
I suppose it should be stated at the outset that I am no longer Orthodox, but used to be a rather zealous convert (in fact, not even Christian).
Given the much I’ve seen thrown around about Bp. Benjamin, I have to say I hope the rather anti-gay stance he and his diocese have eventually bites them in his rear end. I remember seeing a letter back in 2008, signed by four or the Orthodox bishops in CA (I don’t think the ROCOR bishop was on there) coming out in favour of Prop 8. Well, given the stuff I’ve seen him accused of…well, it makes me think that the Church is full of BS when it comes to gender and sexuality.
joe:
April 4th, 2011 at 2:57 pm
Amanda, Please be aware that the argument from hypocrisy (person A has been accused of doing bad things, therefore his position on issue X is “full of bs”) is one of the weakest possible. Joe
Joseph:
April 6th, 2011 at 5:45 pm
I agree that charity on all sides must be shown. I also agree with Amanda that my experience has been that those that rail the loudest against homosexuality are usually hiding something.